This is really not one of those topics that anyone of us wants to talk about but the reality is that with the way the economy is going it is going to take its toll on most guys as far as how far they will be willing to travel to go racing. It is already starting to hurt the guys in NHRA with there car count as some races that had over 100 cars in certain classes now only has about 35. Not only is gas going to be a issue but everything that we rely on (oil, food, hotels, parts,ETC...) will be going up in price and last I knew not many of us were making more money.

Reason I brought up this topic is because it will effect us as mud racers in a big way. Most of us are allready thinking twice about traveling more than a couple hours away as gas and diesel prices are over $4.00 a gal. If we don't have have the car count at certain tracks, that track may not be holding an event the next time. Also, If it is going to effect us as racers just keep in mind how it effects our reps when you expect them to be at races. Just keep that in mind. But, having to go to races that are more than a few hours away may be a thing of the past.

A couple of things that we could all hope for is that gas prices will come down soon(highly unlikely) and that we could start to have more races (regional races) closes to home. Just something that I would like to see. Supporting all the local racetracks might be something that all of us as racers could do to help keep our sport alive and flourish in ceratin areas of the country. Not just with car counts but getting the spectators there because they help with there admission fees and some of those in the stands could be some of the future mud racers.

This is just my own view on an issue that I think will effect the MRA more that anything else this year.

_________________
Fred Kowalik
Seriously Demented Racing
1-518-696-7266
MRA member #140
NMRO #2894

www.hrdracingheads.com www.lincolnelectric.com
www.koehlerinjection.com

You have made some points Fred that we all dont want to hear about the rising costs of travel ect.

The biggest problem with "regional" races is at this time I`m not sure there are enough cars to make a decent count if we divide up.

The sand drag guys on that other site Traveler linked us up with have some good ideas.... one I have that might work is if we adopt some of their classes or adjust each others so we can attract them in or they can attract us in.

Thats where just a few of us are willing to spend all this time and money for just a couple of races a year can get some more racing for our travel money wont be the only ones out there. We need car counts up, at all events... mud, sand and asphalt. i work on some NHRA comp stuff here and some offshore boat guys that have the money and still they are cutting back. One of them will run wide open from Erie to Toledo across lake Erie with twin whipple blown 496`s. there is 150 gallons of vp c12 gone. What is it now, a grand a drum? X3! I bet I see him on the rivers here idling around a bit more this summer!

On a mud racing forum we aint saving the world, but we can continue to support or sport and look for a solution.

This all goes back to the TMRO, MOTOJAM, Bodacious thing. Their turnouts were down, not because anyone was boycotting, or their races were bad, just guys cant justify or afford donating 1000$$ to opec to show up for a race.

I have an idea to all promoters. Please think this out before you call me names. If it`s a bad idea I wont be offended!

Instead of all you promoters (and I personally think you all do fantastic jobs whether you agree with the MRA or not) trying to run a bunch of "big" shows that joe average racer cannot afford to go to, get together and run say 1 big race each. NMRO does fine with 5.

Pool money together. make big payouts. The Doo Crew has super good ideas. So does Chris Terry. And we all saw the exellent job Bobby Poston did. Jackie Burden of course is another. And all the others I didnt mention are included in the "attaboy" list also. The MRA can help, Instant T said it best. We got in too deep to fast, but we did get "standardized" rules in place.

I said before, I`m no good as a promoter, but with all the good ideas and support this could be a solution.

I`m not saying to not run your normal shows as usual. Just think about a series where each of you get together and do one big event each with each others help.

thanks for reading all my jibberish!

demented wrote:

This is really not one of those topics that anyone of us wants to talk about but the reality is that with the way the economy is going it is going to take its toll on most guys as far as how far they will be willing to travel to go racing. It is already starting to hurt the guys in NHRA with there car count as some races that had over 100 cars in certain classes now only has about 35. Not only is gas going to be a issue but everything that we rely on (oil, food, hotels, parts,ETC...) will be going up in price and last I knew not many of us were making more money. Reason I brought up this topic is because it will effect us as mud racers in a big way. Most of us are allready thinking twice about traveling more than a couple hours away as gas and diesel prices are over $4.00 a gal. If we don't have have the car count at certain tracks, that track may not be holding an event the next time. Also, If it is going to effect us as racers just keep in mind how it effects our reps when you expect them to be at races. Just keep that in mind. But, having to go to races that are more than a few hours away may be a thing of the past. A couple of things that we could all hope for is that gas prices will come down soon(highly unlikely) and that we could start to have more races (regional races) closes to home. Just something that I would like to see. Supporting all the local racetracks might be something that all of us as racers could do to help keep our sport alive and flourish in ceratin areas of the country. Not just with car counts but getting the spectators there because they help with there admission fees and some of those in the stands could be some of the future mud racers. This is just my own view on an issue that I think will effect the MRA more that anything else this year.

Fred this is exactly my thinking as I have been racing down here in Jan,Feb and Mar and I have seen the car/truck counts off 50% or more at the events I have been to.

Weather seems to have been a factor at many of the races and some cars/trucks have not been ready but the big factor in my mind is travel related costs for many.

Most racers I know are in the construction fields in one way or another and that area of lively hood has taken a beating in the South.

2008 in my opinion, is a survival year for a lot of us,myself included.

MRA will be fine and continue to grow as long as we have concerned members such as yourself.

_________________
Mitch Mitchell
Outlaw Pro stock
MRA #102
NMRO #5000

mudmissile wrote:

The sand drag guys on that other site Traveler linked us up with have some good ideas.... one I have that might work is if we adopt some of their classes or adjust each others so we can attract them in or they can attract us in.

It's odd, because I was just replying to a sand dragger mere minutes ago on another site regarding rules. One thing I've always done is run my own classes that were essentially IV and VI. A lot of these sand drag guys are all-motor smallblocks, but with paddle tires. The main thing that has helped them (aside from just building KILLER cars) has been the lack of a weight minimum. Some of these guys are rolling to the line at less than 2,000lbs driver & fuel included. Looking toward '09, maybe we need an all-motor class for tube-chassis racers, or at least a serious weight break for these guys. And BTW, I don't mean adding another class to what I already feel is maybe too many. Rather, changing one we already have.

mudmissile wrote:

I have an idea to all promoters. Please think this out before you call me names. If it`s a bad idea I wont be offended! Instead of all you promoters (and I personally think you all do fantastic jobs whether you agree with the MRA or not) trying to run a bunch of "big" shows that joe average racer cannot afford to go to, get together and run say 1 big race each. NMRO does fine with 5. Pool money together. make big payouts. The Doo Crew has super good ideas. So does Chris Terry. And we all saw the exellent job Bobby Poston did. Jackie Burden of course is another. And all the others I didnt mention are included in the "attaboy" list also. The MRA can help, Instant T said it best. We got in too deep to fast, but we did get "standardized" rules in place.

The race I've been doing the past couple of years in Linn works exactly like that. 5 guys put $500 each into the first race, got a bunch of stuff for free, and then one guy rounded up some sponsor $. We distributed the profit from that event, kept the original $2,500 in a fund. Each of us then stuck another $500 into the 2nd race, so we were each now into it for a grand (less if you consider we profited on the first race). The 2nd race lost money, but there's still a cash pool available to make a 3rd event. And nobody got exposed to a HUGE loss. The Transfer races work kind of like this too, right?

And honestly, that's the only way I could afford to do any more events. I can't take another $7,000 loss in one night all on my shoulders again like I did in 2003. I'd like to see something like this happen for the East-West shootout we all discussed several months back. And one of the real side benefits of all of us going in together on ONE event is that it ties all of us up for that day - meaning no event conflict

Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

The cost of travel was exactly why I was pushing the NMRO to allow the blower cars to buy a 2nd pass in 5 and 6 I dont care about another entry fee when it costs hundreds just to get to the race! Our plan is to only go to bloomsburg this year with the increasing costs. (Yea chuck I know what your thinking, with 2 cars If I have a motor by then!) ya jerk! The crank has finally arrived! BTW you all know how sensitive Mr Wonderful is so let me just tell everyone I called eric and emailed the NMRO about the second pass for the blowers NOT chuck so give the little guy a break.

_________________
Scot Sanford
MRA member#114
"Insurance fraud is a felony!"

I just got done putting my broken crank that looks like a road map of NYC when the magnet is on it back in.... my new one is still somewhere between Crower and here.

I just think with all the brainpower in this sport (not you Scot) there could be a solution like Scott G. said, get something rolling so that the little losses can be absorbed by a big shows profit.

If it takes a sand rail class, an "anything goes" class or whatever, if all these great promoters get together and sell the shows to sponsors nothing but good will come out of it.

mr w.

Okay, so this idea has come up dozens of times before - I know I & others have pushed this for a couple years at least. Several times, we've come close, but it's never been organized enough to make it happen. Plus, folks are apprehensive about putting their money into someone else's hands. Here's what I think needs to happen:

1) Pick a "neutral" location. Somewhere in Iowa maybe, wherever. But, pick an area where there is NO established mud promoter. Somewhere that has no big MRA, NMRO, or other established "big" events. Someplace that "needs" these events.

2) Establish a set of rules to be followed. Obviously, this being the MRA board, we'd say use MRA rules. In the past, it's been, "use these rules, or maybe those, or maybe some blend of all of the above". Indecision breeds indifference & the idea dies.

3) Set up a corporation and bank account, separate from MRA. This company would exist solely for the purpose of putting on races.

4) Establish a buy-in fee. Say we put 1,000 "shares" up for sale at $25 each. Everything has to be open. Every single shareholder needs an accounting of every dime spent, an open-door policy on who holds how many shares, etc.

5) A board of directors would consist of the top shareholders. These folks would present ideas to all the shareholders, all of whom would have voting rights. Each share purchased is worth 1 vote. If you own 1 share, you get 1 vote. If you own 100 shares, you get 100 votes. If you own zero shares, you have zero say in the matter. To avoid a dictatorship of sorts, we'll put a maximum on the # of shares one individual may own. This limit also sort of forces us to get a BIG number of PEOPLE involved.

6) An event is conducted. The event makes money, or it doesn't. The season ends, all expenses are tallied, and the value of the shares is recalculated. A window of a couple months is then open when shares can be bought or sold at current value, after which you're locked in (or out) for the season. And then it all starts over again.

7) Any sponsor money that can be generated goes right into the account. So, even if you only have a share or two, you can increase the value of your share by bringing even a small sponsor package to the table.

Call it the Great American Mud Race or something. Make it THE event to attend. And if it goes well, it can be 2 races the following year. Just some ideas.


Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

One completely different idea about working together on a smaller level has to do with the event conflicts that exist. One big concern is that 2-3 races on one day is going to split the cars up. (As an aside, I'm of the belief that if we don't increase the events, we'll never GET more cars to spread around, but that's a whole 'nuther subject). You can't work the dates around everyone, but you can do things to help each other. Essentially, there are 3 groups of cars that REALLY travel:

Pro Stocks
Modifieds
Opens

Make an agreement amonst yourselves that on "such N such" date, we're going to target only THIS kind of car.

Example, let's say we have 3 promoters all conflicting on the same weekend each year. These promoters are in KY, KS, and WV respectively. They then agree that on the first time they conflict:

The KY promoter puts almost all his purse into Pro Stock
The KS promoter puts almost all his purse into Modified
The WV promoter puts almost all his purse into Open

The next time they conflict, they change up WHERE the money goes. There's no sense in all 3 promoters funding a big purse for all 3 groups of racers on the SAME day, assuming they really ARE pulling from the same "pool" of cars.

Doing this still allows all 3 events to go on, hopefully helps each be successful, and thus in THEORY helps build local interest in each group which SHOULD lead to the existence of more cars as time goes on.

Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

Now those are the ideas I was talking about Scott. And since the MRA is already started why cant it be used as a "home base" for these operations. Lets here from all the guys like you that actually know how to make this work and get something rolling for `09.


I`ll do whatever I can, but what we need is actual promoters such as yourself and all the othersdoing this, just use the MRA to tech and set rules. It certainly could work using the guidelines you posted. And the promoters already exsist putting on great shows. All that we need is for them to grow.

We already have the MRA base and paying members... so the starter button is pushed. Get a few track owners willing to throw the mag switch.

mudmissile wrote:

what we need is actual promoters such as yourself

We need the ones who are much better at it than me


In all seriousness, putting on an event is a pretty scary idea to a lot of folks. But, with enough help, ANYONE can be a part of this. Yes, there will need to be a few people to run point so to speak. But, the biggest thing is to have people who are dedicated to making this happen. If you haven't ever ram-rodded one of these things before, I'm sure there will be enough folks involved who HAVE. There WILL be people who know how to get insurance, how to do fairground contracts, how to get the equipment needed, how much help is needed, what sort of things to be careful of, everything. This IS doable.

Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

Mudmissile wrote

Quote:

This all goes back to the TMRO, MOTOJAM, Bodacious thing. Their turnouts were down, not because anyone was boycotting, or their races were bad, just guys cant justify or afford donating 1000$$ to opec to show up for a race.

This was one of the reasons that I started this post. There are some ideas going on that the MRA has not fullfilled their responsibilities to some tracks or promotors. This may be true or untrue, don't know, but from a different standpoint, this whole MRA organization is being funded by some members but most of the reason that it is going together is that the reps have put in THEIR OWN MONEY to get this going and people have forgotten that, or so I think.

Second thing was that some guys are thinking that there were other issues going on about why racers weren't at some events. As ROHO said most guys aren't finished with there cars, but I do believe that the biggest influence in the lack of cars is the price of fuel. I know I won't be going to half the races I planned on and its all because of fuel prices, nothing else!!! To spend a thousand dollars on fuel, and then a couple of hundred for entrance fees,tolls, food and other "racing nessecities" is going to have most of us thinking twice about an event that may not have the competition or money for purses.

I guess I'm sounding a little negative(sorry ) but it does seem to be on everyones mind.

Ideally having regional races would be great, But it is not the answer There aren't that many racers in certain area's to justify regional races. I don't have an answer for it but there are many excellent ideas that have come up from the thought that I had started here. I just don't want to see some people get discouraged because of the lack of cars at a certain event and try to put the focus of the cause on something that it isn't.

_________________
Fred Kowalik
Seriously Demented Racing
1-518-696-7266
MRA member #140
NMRO #2894

www.hrdracingheads.com www.lincolnelectric.com
www.koehlerinjection.com

i like it scott get it started im sure it will go. wed love to be racen alot this year but its a time thing here, brad

Well guys me being from Alabama all races are a great distance for me also, and I can see the rep's probelm's wether it be taking off work or travel cost. But maybe with time things will work themself out. I personally would like to this go I just think its still to early in the season to see and to get rolling good,and we've got some awesome reps heading it up!!! If yall ever need me,I'll try any way possible to help... cell 2567386498

The worst part of this fuel thing is that it isn't just more expensive on the weekend. We're eating that increase 24/7. So, it's not that we have the same "recreational" budget & less buying power with it. It's that many of us have had to reduce the "recreational" budget to make ends meet Mon-Fri IN ADDITION to the recreational travel being more expensive

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class