So it's more like we've always assumed (and how it should be). It's about the event, not the name at the top of the page.

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

it just pissed a bunch of us or guys off to see all the truck classes and then you only want to give the blower or mod class 1 class with added money. it really is simply to fix even though the nmro isnt the best deal going they still have a good car count at most races. and that is what you all dont have. so now ask yourselves what is different?it is a proven fact that the rail classes are the only ones that will traval. but everyone wants to put money in the lower classes because thay say they have so many trucks down there. but most the truck are more local trucks and would be there no matter what. you put up a 1000 to win paddels and 1000 to win cuts and i bet you would draw some cars. but you do need to pay back more than 3 or 4 places.

_________________
573 898 5643 if anyone has anything they want to say or ask

I think what everyone in the top classes just needs to understand is that the $$$ simply isn't always there. Kinda like the race you & I work on in Linn. If we could pay $1,000 to win both blower car classes & pay 10 places, we would. But, we can't.

Yeah, the purse in March was bigger than an NMRO purse, but with less at the top end. BUT, the biggest wad of that money was for the rails. And the thought was that they'd get most or all of their money back in entry fees from locals in those lower classes. So, even though there was a lot of money guaranteed for those lower classes, the plan (as I understand it) was for that to work out more like straight payback for THOSE guys & the people at your end were the only ones who really should have been paid more than you paid in.

You all have to keep in mind the way NMRO has funded the blower classes is by raping the truck classes. $65 to enter & race for a plastic trophy. A lot of folks aren't comfortable doing that to those guys. So, to make things more fair (and give the truck guys a REASON to travel), it might mean the proportion of the money takes on a new look. It might even mean that some somewhat underfunded events simply can't provide a full-on "pro" purse for the top classes. It's not that you guys are getting hosed. It's simply that it's not as "big" of a race as Special Events. And if that means that some guys can't justify making the haul, that's fine. But, there's no reason for anyone to be "pissed off" about a promoter not having enough $ to make a purse interesting enough for you to come.

See Special Events doesn't have to make money on mud racing. You guys are just filler to them until the Monster Trucks can do their thing. They pay out the way they do because it gives them exactly the kind of show they WANT - a handful of trucks & a bunch of rails. Promoters of stand-alone mud racing events may WANT that kind of show, but they can't afford it. They lose money on your class. The best guy to have at your race from a profit point of view is a local guy in a pickup truck. It's not an exciting part of the show, but it's what pays the bills. So, you HAVE to take care of those guys. I lost 7 grand in one night promoting the kind of show I wanted to have. So, those shows aren't happening anymore. And if it wasn't for help from you, & the rest, I wouldn't even be doing what I am.

Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

Maybe another way to put this into perspective is to consider this:

Special events puts $10,000 into the NMRO purse. What portion of their overall budget do you suppose that represents? 1%? 5%? 10%?

At the kinds of events we're talking about here, what do you suppose it would be? I'd be willing to bet that for most guys who've put up purses of that nature, it represents more than HALF their budget. I know for a fact it has in my case.


Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

You all have to keep in mind the way NMRO has funded the blower classes is by raping the truck classes. $65 to enter & race for a plastic trophy. A lot of folks aren't comfortable doing that to those guys./ well maybe if promoters where not putting added money in them classes then they would have to move up to race for the added money. then maybe guys wouldnt be having big time engines being built. and by doing or stopping that maybe it would look like a better sport for the average guy to get into to race cheap . i dont really have the answer but i do know that the mra has put on 3 or 4 races that where not the races that they wanted and didnt have the turn out they needed. so maybe before you go and do another one you al should look to find the problem.we was in wisconson over the weekend at a race and there was 8 or 10 rails there. and it was cold as hell up there. it was in the middle of now where and he had one big crowd. but he PROMOTED it. we need some sales me to sell the sport and to make people see

_________________
573 898 5643 if anyone has anything they want to say or ask

This sounds like a good deal to me too, or let multiple cars/one driver run but allow them to place only once. I like the idea of the bracket style races as well, that does level out the playing field. It does bring back the competition back to driving the car not how much power you can afford.



Hey Scott,
Had all intentions of going to bodacious on Saturday and hit Mud in the pines, in New Jersey on sunday ,BUT..... I got called to work for Sunday on a major paper mill shutdown so I had to cancel all my racing for this weekend. Needless to say I'm pissed that I can go racing but can't pass up double time. I'll see you guys in Chatham or if you feel like it take a ride up to Monson, Mass on the 25th. and watch the hillclimbs. Get with Bill-Bill, I think he's going.

_________________
Quit talkin....Lets Race!!!!

Fred Kowalik
Seriously Demented Racing
MRA member #140
NMRO #2894

It's a good point overall. BUT, once again I think everyone in the blower class who looked at the March event as if there was a lot of "added money" in the lower classes missed the reality of it. The purses in those lower classes would equate to about 100% payback at most events.




First off, the MRA hasn't put on ANY races. Various PROMOTERS have put on races that were MRA sanctioned. And there are any number of reasons why the turnout was poor, not the least of which is $3-4/gallon fuel. You are correct in that it's a good idea to examine the possible reasons "why".

Certainly putting less money in what are typically "big" classes wouldn't have helped that turnout any, though. It may have resulted in more rails, but fewer trucks. If your overall turnout is low, boosting the blower class is only a partial solution. Because even a BIG turnout of blower cars isn't very many cars.



8-10 is still not many. We had twice that when you kicked butt at Linn last year with almost no purse. 'Course we're blessed to have a bunch of those guys relatively local which isn't the case everywhere. But yeah we definitely need some promotions expertise & sales help. I spent 4 hours on the phone with a sales guy recently & there's a ton of stuff we need to do to even get ready to have such a guy work for us.

And this is where we all need to work together. Take a sport like rock crawling. Never has such a boring concept worked so well as it has now. But, they have some experts in marketing in their sport & it shows. And, most of these guys are the competitors, not the promoters. So, they've worked directly with the promoters to help out. And we'd be glad to have the same here.

Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

That marketing idea is not new - Most everyone agrees on the concept that we need to market the sport, But we have to think about putting fans in the stands along with the racers to show that a market even exist. If we are going to promote mud racing as a stand alone sport - Then we must make it a marketable product. In order to do that, We must look at the possibility that just maybe, We need to change our format some. We need to look at this from another perspective. not just from a racers point of view - But from a sponsors. We need to find out what it takes to gain their interests.

Another area you already touched on - Is in saying the promoter must promote the event - Its not up to the racers - not saying that at this point they can't help where needed. But their main job is to put on a show. Do not ever think it is not a show - Its entertainment and (admit it or not) that is what it must be if you want it to succeed.

_________________
terry slocum
mra rep #109
nmro #354

e-mail - tas565@yahoo.com
386-562-8755 (weekends only)

All very good points Terry.

Another point to go along with this way of thinking is that many Mud Racing spectators enjoy watching trucks and Jeeps in the lower classes line up and race just as much, if not more, than the rails.

All of the "stock classes" are an important part of the entertainment package.

(Even if we are all just chicken ****, Shawn)

Marketing can go a number of different directions. Take the rock crawler example. The "pro" rock crawling events have ZERO guaranteed purse money. Nothing, zip, zero, nada. One group runs for 100% payback, the other for 110%. No entries, no purse - but the entry fee is several hundred bucks & the payout is pretty substantial, provided you're one of the top guys.

The promoters spend their money on obtaining media exposure - magazines, TV, newsprint, whatever - rather than on the purse. They provide exposure to the competitors & the competitors get most of THEIR money from the people who put names on the sides of the cars. Some of these guys have 6-figure sponsor deals, BTW. But, here's one kink in the chain. Sponsors (in general) prefer recognizable TRUCKS to "buggies". That's why you'll see even many of the "open" class guys in that sport have gone out of their way to make their tube-chassis machines resemble production vehicles. It creates a larger "billboard" than a more stripped down machine.

FWIW, I've also been told the same thing by the magazine guys. They want to fill their pages with trucks - not rails. And in their eyes, even the Pro Stock trucks are too far removed from "reality" to be of interest to their demographic. This is not to suggest that we should focus on Super Stocks & Street trucks to the exclusion of all else. Far from it. But, it IS important to understand this point of view if we're going to figure out a way to be successful.


Anyway, you can see that the rock guys have taken on an entirely different approach & it works for them. May not work for us, may not be desirable at all. But, as Terry mentioned, we're going to have to think in new directions. Changes to formats, marketing schemes, purse money, whatever. Other than the safety & integrity of the competition, nothing is off limits or too sacred to consider changing.

Scott

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

So if I put a TOYOTA body on the rail I might can get some of the Toyota sponsor money, I'm in.

_________________
Randy Roberts ClassIV
Richton Ms

You couldn't pick an American company?

_________________
Scott Graham
MRA #103
Hot Street Class

Well the way thet seem to be throwing it in nascar, I just figured what the hell

_________________
Randy Roberts ClassIV
Richton Ms

it will make his rail more reliable and have better gas mileage

Some good points - I suppose that is why NHRA funny cars have always been more popular (crowd appeal) then the dragsters, But without the rail cars - I have to think they would be missing a good part of the show.
I do not see where it matters as far as trucks being better billboards. I believe the rails are just as good (again look at NHRA). I do see the difference when you speak of the truck magazines wanting trucks. Of course they do, After all they are a "truck magazine". There are to my knowledge none that even cover rails or for that matter our sport in general. Once in a while some spot coverage of mud racing in one form or the other, But not very often. They cater to the street and trail riding groups, Because that's what makes up 75% or more of the off road world. Racing is just a small part of it. We need to look into making our part of it more main stream and that means more exposure, To gain that exposure we need more "members" - more members will expand the sport if just by shear numbers. More members asking the magazines for coverage (they do look at numbers and do not be afraid to say your are a member of the MRA - groups will have more pull). May get us the needed coverage.

I don't think it matters which way the money comes into the sport, Be it sponsor generated or through the purse or both together (better yet). But we still need to show potential sponsor we can be a marketable commodity for either to work.

That is why I keeping saying we have to change the format in which we run. Most everyone will agree that we need the entry level classes. Most will agree that these classes have always been the bread and butter to support the faster classes. Mud Bogs and the shear numbers of entries they can and do generate are needed just as much as the top classes and must be incorporated into these shows to become a success.
Everyone hear worked on a progression of classes to help people enter into and grow with the sport. A progression of class payout is needed to define the classes and their standings in the organization and the best concept I have heard is a purses "with bonus money" (at the promoters desecration) added to the classes that exceed their minimum car counts. We may need to look into changing how the 3 or 4 Pro classes are run. We might want to have Super-stock through outlaw Pro-Stock run heads up? We need to look at having the rail classes run two passes on the same day - (one early one later). Lets say on the bigger events - One entry fee for each class - one class each day - two passes each day - one payout each day. We have to do something different - There is just NOT Enough exposure of these cars on the track and that goes for all the Pro classes. These are just some ideas - what are yours?

_________________
terry slocum
mra rep #109
nmro #354

e-mail - tas565@yahoo.com
386-562-8755 (weekends only)